Curse

Jha Jha · Oct 16, 2006, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

Hah,this is the reason why gimmick builds survive. People don't care about having fun,they just want to win even if that's what they have been playing for the last 6 months. Look at IWAYers (example, IWAYers imagine it's blood spike I'm talking about): they've been playing IWAY for over 6 months and still didn't get bored of it? C'mon... Everyone gets bored of a build you play 24/7, but they will still play it. Why? Because that's the only way they can win (or even don't want to try new builds).
So clearly, Jha Jha, this is the most obvious sentence that you don't have any idea about the game. If you think that WINNING is the main purpose than the rest of your post can be ignored. Winning is of course nice and everybody wants to win,but you can WIN and have FUN. Reason why no one cares about fun is because they all want to be on top, but they forget that all of that doesn't matter if they got their rank with a lame build and no one will care which rank they are when it's obvious that everyone can beat them if they would play a normal build.

Im sure youve heard of me and i have been in your teams as well..Im Freekey Zeekey..although I do feel bad about your decision to stop playing GW you should also be the last one to talk about the stuff you run/ran

+ now that GW has lost most of its true feel aint winning about the only thing u can play for now a days anyway?..as far as lame builds yall ran vimway in 6v6 dbl fame preview weekend you should be the last one to talk

..I got respect for ya your a cool dude but you gota understand that you can WIN and have FUN with a lame build

but now its just more serious

you can call me lame you can call me what ever you want...cuz my H screen is also filled with about the same stuff you got (probly more)...im not gona any sleep over being lame on a INTERNET GAME....everything that I stood for is now gone after anet decided to become wack with their updates....im taking it like it is and winning by means neccesary..and i still say GG if we lose..thats no problem at all

Mighti · Oct 16, 2006, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jha Jha

And why would be noobs because we obs flame spike? Again your using understatments w/o any research. You can counter obs flame spike easy..every character is a softy with 60 armor on (if not using armor of earth ofcourse)...even with obs flame spike there are strategies and tactics you have to do to survive..you still have to run flags, play defensive like in any build...single enemy morale boost in the end can screw a obs flame spike really bad...

I didn't call you noobs.
You claimed that you are owning gvg and I proofed you wrong by pointing out that you don't need a bit of skill to be succesful with the build you guys run. Maybe you are in fact good players, I don't know you; but if you are you definetely didn't show it by running a top60ish obsspike in a funseason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jha Jha

And ill be honest man..and you and everyone else engrave this in your memory...Tombs rank/GvG champ point ranks/and even gvg ranks (since about half of top 16 ranked guild are running obs flame spike) mean nothings.

Still they seem to be the most important thing to you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jha Jha

And nobody is guilty of running any type of a build...a rank 12 iwayer is not guilty of running IWAY for his fame, just like everyone else running obs flame spike to farm points and get silver capes is not guilty for running obs flame...with any build in gvg tactics comes into play has nothing to do with the build...

You can run whatever you want to, just as anyone else, I really don't care.
Just don't feel like a great player running gimmick only.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jha Jha

So...what am I guilty of Mighty?

Nothing, it's a game.
And it's Mighti with an "i" please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jha Jha

Provide good points next time bro

Don't misinterpret mine next time.

Jha Jha · Oct 16, 2006, 08:43 PM // 20:43

dont QQ next time neather

90% of the stuff you quoted me on like me saying im ownage and champ points are so important to me is again a understatement as I was making a general statment towards everyone

Sorry about pronouncing your name wrong

Mental Leteci · Oct 16, 2006, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jha Jha

...

I don't know why I wrote that. Just had a need to write something. I like Then and yes I remember you,I played with you and you definitely have more fame than me (atm I got around 3,300 if I'm right)

))))
I know that lame builds can be fun, but still I don't agree with you saying that when you're winning nothing else is important.

P.S. I still play on my friends account so I know what's going on in this game or else I wouldn't spam this forum

Ado · Oct 17, 2006, 10:49 AM // 10:49

This thread is turning out (like many other threads) into a "good builds vs noobbuilds thread" For me personally diversity is very important. Playing all kinds of builds (and facing different kinds of builds) is what keeps this game interesting for me. When I'm trying a build I've never done before I don't look if it's a noobbuild or not. If it's fun to play I keep on playing it, if not, I'm gonna play something else, it's as simple as that.

New things are not related to the teamsize but to the amounts of different builds being used. All builds in HA atm are modded builds of 8v8. Only difference is the absence of IWAY.

I've mentioned this before but that thread was deleted, so I'll mention it again. If we don't like gimmickbuilds being overused then we should't play them so much. The only way we can change the stagnaty of HA is by playing new stuff. There's nothing wrong with playing gimmickbuilds, just don't overuse it. This is a players responsibility.

The reason why 6v6 didn't change anything in a positive way is because most of us keep on sticking to our gimmickbuilds the whole time. 6v6 didn't introduce any new builds. In fact, it reduced the amount of builds being used even more.

For new players it's nearly as hard to find a non-henchway team as in 8v8. Most teams forming are still ranked. Hence, not so many new players doing HA.

For me personally, even when trying new builds, 6v6 ain't my thing cause of gamestylereasons (all mentioned already). It just ain't fun to play for me and I can't even motivate myself to rank up.

So in conclusion the 3 main problems are these:
- Gimmickbuilds being overused.
- Hardcore HA players which dislike the gamestyle of 6v6.
- 6v6 didn't result into the introduction of many new players.

@ GvG players

For the love of yourselves, when the ladder is frozen, go play new builds or you'll face the same problems as HA.

JR · Oct 17, 2006, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ado

@ GvG players

For the love of yourselves, when the ladder is frozen, go play new builds or you'll face the same problems as HA.

Damnit I wanted to practice my Obs Flame spiking skills over the locked period...

yesitsrob · Oct 17, 2006, 11:45 AM // 11:45

The thing I do like about this 6v6 is there are less scrubby spikes, which is nice... at least scrubby spikes will now only see the use of getting shit guilds into the playoffs.

However there are just as many, if not more gimmicks than before. And it's such an interruptfest on altar maps that holding is pretty darn simple. It's probably harder to hold when facing a henchway since they won't have 9 billion interrupts to hold for you.

HA needs more relic runs, and less altar maps ^^

Zui · Oct 17, 2006, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

The thing I do like about this 6v6 is there are less scrubby spikes, which is nice... at least scrubby spikes will now only see the use of getting shit guilds into the playoffs.

However there are just as many, if not more gimmicks than before. And it's such an interruptfest on altar maps that holding is pretty darn simple. It's probably harder to hold when facing a henchway since they won't have 9 billion interrupts to hold for you.

HA needs more relic runs, and less altar maps ^^

http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?p=4441343

Ado · Oct 17, 2006, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Damnit I wanted to practice my Obs Flame spiking skills over the locked period...

I wanted to play 8 W/R iway just for old-time sake

yesitsrob · Oct 17, 2006, 11:59 AM // 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?p=4441343

haha. Yeah don't get me wrong here ^^. I mean on altar maps

. The less people with seeking arrows or PD when you're already holding, the harder it is to hold

Mental Leteci · Oct 17, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Damnit I wanted to practice my Obs Flame spiking skills over the locked period...

: )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

defrule · Oct 18, 2006, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Seph

Anyways, Nightfall PvE sounds more interesting to me then this 6v6 HA now :P

That is so true Seph, exactly how I feel at the moment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurse With Wound

They dont want the real results. They dont care about HA community, they never did. They want to be happy with the change their made, and they want to live in denial ( Pravda aka the scribe - anets propaganda pamphlet ). Thus the poll in tgh where only elitist gvg crowd hang. The poll there is worthless, becasue most of gwhall forum regulars dont play HA AT ALL, and doesnt care about it. But seriously, the companies that want to live in denial, and ignore part of their customer base wont be sucessful for very long. Gamers tend to have good memory. Sony made that mistake with SW:Galaxies?

Adding to those points, 177 people voted and Gaile assumed it was alright to say that 70% of people like the change? If one person voted and he/she voted liking the change then I'm pretty sure Gaile would be happy enough to say 100% of the people like the change.

So has anyone in ArenaNet done any statistics? Obviously they think a small sample is representative of entire population and that targeting their polls at certain groups is not biased.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Oct 18, 2006, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Quote:

UPDATES TO HEROES' ASCENT
Removed Burial Mounds from rotation.
Raised the team count for Broken Tower to 3.
Reduced the play time for Broken Tower to 4 minutes.
Reduced the play time for Courtyard to 4 minutes.
Added levers to Scarred Earth so that players can open gates leading out of the center region of the map. Gates still open automatically as teams are defeated.

Burial Mounds getting removed had little effect in my opinion to Hero's Ascent. One less map of one team versus another which was the point of Underworld anyways.

The Broken Tower change is another story I must say. Now being the second map in the rotation it is more common to have less experenced teams facing you on this particular map. This really creats a second Hall of Heros where there is no holding team. The problem now though is that the teams without experence sometimes will attack one team relentlessly, even if that team is not holding. With that the map has the ability to become a gankfest. Lastly some gimicks, namely Victory is Mine Trappers, trive on this map. The point of the changes was to freshen up Hero's Ascent and maps like this that support ViM (I believe the most run gimmick).

Courtyard changed to four minutes really doesn't make much of a difference on most occasions, but sometimes team do actually priest kill and engage well before 7 minutes or so.

Scared Earth is my least favorite of the changes. Ganking is pretty much the norm on this map (I would like to thank MOJO for waiting awhile before charging in). Red come help us and politics like that is not what Anet had in mind when they made it that map alteration.

Changed Hero's Ascent to a 6v6 arena. I was unhappy with this change from the start, but what really did it for me was the lack of warning I recieved from Anet. Three days of warning before destroying a game type that I enjoy, as well as many others, is a slap in the face to the 8v8 Hero's Ascent community. The fact that I never had the chance to do one last fame run with my all my friends really bothers me.

The reasons for the 6v6 changes are:

To erase gimmicks:

Fail. I'll use this quote because it applies very well:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teachings of The Buddha

2. Everything Changes

The second universal truth of the Buddha is that everything is continuously changing. Life is like a river flowing on and on, ever-changing. Sometimes it flows slowly and sometimes swiftly. It is smooth and gentle in some places, but later on snags and rocks crop up out of nowhere. As soon as we think we are safe, something unexpected happens.

Once dinosaurs, mammoths, and saber-toothed tigers roamed this earth. They all died out, yet this was not the end of life. Other life forms like smaller mammals appeared, and eventually humans, too. Now we can even see the Earth from space and understand the changes that have taken place on this planet. Our ideas about life also change. People once believed that the world was flat, but now we know that it is round.

Anet, gimmicks didn't die. They were reborn. It took about 2 days or so, but gimmicks were still there. As IWAY and Bloodspike were once the dominant gimmicks of HA they have been replaced by Vimway and Dual Smite. In my opinion nothing has changed, gimmicks didn't go away, or even go into hibernation, they took a day rest and went back to circulation in Hero's Ascent.

To freshen up Hero's Ascent:

The new maps are disapointing. Removal of a map and making ganking more common was not what is needed in Hero's Ascent. Fail to be honest.

To get new players into Hero's Ascent:

This is what Anet did correctly. There are many new players in Hero's Ascent, but they came at the expence of hardcore players. On a further note most of the newer players are not experenced in pvp outside of Random Arenas.

Making groups easier:

Yes, I can make groups easier now. Many more pugs around. I only need six guildies instead of eight, or I can conform to a rising trend in Hero's Ascent and get one guy and four henchies and go.

And to make permanent a game type that the masses approved of:

It was something new and cool, double fame didn't hurt either. That is why is was so widely approved. When people heard about 6v6 they were saying "can't wait for double fame again." You couldn't help but offend many people though with your choice. You maid it so we have to learn to live with it.

I'm going to leave with this quote, but I plan to post a bit more on the subject of 6v6 HA.

Quote:

Even though we've changed and we're all finding our own place in the world, we all know that when the tears fall or the smile spreads across our face, we'll come to each other because no matter where this crazy world takes us, nothing will ever change so much to the point where we're not all still friends.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 18, 2006, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Damnit I wanted to practice my Obs Flame spiking skills over the locked period...

You can guest with us if you want :P

Additionally, Due to the nature of victory conditions and random opponents, HA is always going to be loaded with gimmicky builds to roll unpreprared teams. Bring counters to gimmicks or you deserve to lose.

@the lower quality of players: IMO, a good thing. Get your damn emote and get out, and then go gvg, it's a lot more rewarding, and only slightly less gimmicky.

Mental Leteci · Oct 18, 2006, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Only reason why GvG is more played than HA is because you can split and in that way counter gimmicks easier. GvG has 10x more gimmick builds than HA. Only gimmick in HA was IWAY,those who say that blood spike (spike?!?) is gimmick are nubs.

P.S. I like pancakes.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 18, 2006, 10:00 AM // 10:00

I disagree. If anything, blood spike was way more gimmicky than iway because it abused the nature of soul reaping, and gave you a way to roll teams because people didn't feel like playing a 20 minute match on burial mounds.

Spikes are pretty bad, far worse than iway in my opinion.

Mental Leteci · Oct 18, 2006, 10:06 AM // 10:06

Ok Thom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mental Leteci

Only gimmick in HA was IWAY,those who say that blood spike (spike?!?) is gimmick are nubs.

1st of all so-called blood spike isn't a spike. Only reason people were dying against was QZ. "Spikes" were SO INFUSABLE. It was way more gimmick when they were getting full energy from spirits. Man I don't want to discuss anymore,it seems that you always disagree with me no matter what I say so there is no point. I'll go eat my pancakes now.

Apple Tart · Oct 18, 2006, 10:22 AM // 10:22

I think that spikes might be, on occasion, cheap, and similar to shooting fish in a barrel with a machine gun. But since I somehow doubt there will be any way to ever stop people attacking all at once with a combination of high-damage skills, here's some really stupid looking japanese girls to direct your range into a new direction for ten seconds

That having been said, I'm enjoying 6v6 and had a few relaxing matches today. It's been fun seeing people come up with new 6v6 builds and trying stuff out.

phasola · Oct 22, 2006, 04:50 PM // 16:50

It's been 3 weeks, enough time to see things in perspective.
The stroing points of 6 v 6 :
- more people playing
- diversity in builds

#1 : More people playing : i don't know what anet was thinking when they decided to perm 6 v 6 after a double fame weeked. HA population is at an all time low; 4 districts at peak time. Maybe pve'rs came in large numbers in the first few days, but after their VIM didn't pass the first few maps i think they had a change of mind. True, there are some left, those spamming WTB/WTS and the "stance spikers".

#2 : Diversity in builds : how does less people eqaul more diversity ? It sure beats me. And how on earth can you be "diversed" in a place where to whole point is keeping the ghost alive, and more than that, interupting 2 ghosts at a time. When you look at how many characters can interupt ghosts for a large amount of time, you don't get a lot of diversity. And people complained that the lack of diversity was mainly because of IWAY and Bspike. Good thing the gimmick days are over. Now 2/3 of the teams are dual smite, the other 1/3 is condition, with the ocasional bspike/IWAY/vim attempt. Say hello to diversity ! At least b spike and IWAY were easy to beat...

The whole point of this altough 6 v 6 was fun, the fun sure didn't last, after 1 week i was sick of that place. Funny how that never happened in 8 v 8...
If Anet doesn't introduce some new form of pvp in NF or completely change to map and purpose of HA, i don't see this area lasting more than half a year. Too bad, because there were a lot of people that enjoyed tombs, flawed as it was. Most of them have either moved to GvG or quit. I don't say it's bad to go to GvG, buy why force people to do that ? It should be a natural crossover.
I like GvG, but what is there to do whille i can't play GvG due to various reasons ? Until a month ago, i had an alternative, now the alternatives are PvE, AB or TA/RA... Neither of those looks awfully appealing to me...

Dodo The Extinct · Oct 22, 2006, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

here's some really stupid looking japanese girls to direct your range into a new direction for ten seconds

We need more posts like that :P

Countless flamewars could be stopped